Python Python toe in adjust?

[chipster]

Since new my Python has always had a few degrees of toe in. I looked at the instructions which describes adjusting the turnbuckles! My V2 Python doesn’t have any. Due to this it was pulling left. So I moved the servo arm one tooth but that sent it pulling to the right. Back to the start. So I adjusted the turnbuckle on the link arm. This didn’t really help. I don’t want to buy the turnbuckles for the toe adjustment as this may weaken the Python. Is there an alternative way to adjust toe. Moving to a different hole on the Ackerman plate maybe. Or changing the camber spacers. Help!! I just want it to drive in a straight line without making constant changes to the trim settings.
Thanks

 

[Horatio]

Since new my Python has always had a few degrees of toe in. I looked at the instructions which describes adjusting the turnbuckles! My V2 Python doesn’t have any. Due to this it was pulling left. So I moved the servo arm one tooth but that sent it pulling to the right. Back to the start. So I adjusted the turnbuckle on the link arm. This didn’t really help. I don’t want to buy the turnbuckles for the toe adjustment as this may weaken the Python. Is there an alternative way to adjust toe. Moving to a different hole on the Ackerman plate maybe. Or changing the camber spacers. Help!! I just want it to drive in a straight line without making constant changes to the trim settings.
Thanks

There is no alternative way to adjust toe - if your trackrods are fixed length, effectively your toe is not adjustable.

Quick fix to work around your rig pulling to the left - use your steering trim on the radio.

Longer term fix - replace the fixed length trackrods with proper turn buckles and have at it.

 

[chipster]

The Corally turnbuckle set to me doesn’t look strong enough to survive heavy bashing. Would other manufacturers all metal ones fit. Namely Typhon it’s nearly the same layout as the Python but would they fit. My ones on my HSP xstr are all metal too which never bent they are the same length as the Corally ones but are straight and not on an angle like the Python ones.For a cheap buggy that takes some stick but it’s only 3S not 6S. I did run it on 4S but it ate the bearings.

 

[crash_194]

You can use different combinations of washers/spacers behind the pillow balls (the bit that screws in to your suspension arm). This allows you to adjust you toe in/out without having adjustable steering arms. Appreciate it is far from ideal and the instruction manual advises this for camber, but it does also impact toe.

 

[chipster]

You can use different combinations of washers/spacers behind the pillow balls (the bit that screws in to your suspension arm). This allows you to adjust you toe in/out without having adjustable steering arms. Appreciate it is far from ideal and the instruction manual advises this for camber, but it does also impact toe.

Yes thanks. The Python came with a washer on the lower pillow ball. I have now fitted one about the same width to the upper ones. This has adjusted the camber to 0% but it has also lessoned the toe in a little.

 

[Koma71]

 

[Horatio]

You can use different combinations of washers/spacers behind the pillow balls (the bit that screws in to your suspension arm). This allows you to adjust you toe in/out without having adjustable steering arms. Appreciate it is far from ideal and the instruction manual advises this for camber, but it does also impact toe.

No - that adjusts the camber, not the toe.

Removing the washer from the upper pillow ball will help you achieve more negative camber, but it does nothing to help you - for example - go from 1° toe in to 2° degrees toe out. You have to get adjustable track rods for that. Just get a set of titanium turnbuckles for 1/8th buggy/truggy and fit the corally rod ends. It'll be fine.

 

[chipster]

Thanks

View attachment 4194

thanks All. Yes as in picture that’s exactly what I have done. What an improvement. I like your spring socks. They’re keep the dust out. Where did you get them from if you don’t mind me asking

 

[Jeffwazz]

Have you bent the Ackerman plate? That will effectively shorten the track rods, giving excessive toe-out.

 

[Horatio]

Thanks

thanks All. Yes as in picture that’s exactly what I have done. What an improvement. I like your spring socks. They’re keep the dust out. Where did you get them from if you don’t mind me asking

Please take a picture of your rig's toe.

How can messing with the camber usefully change the toe in any meaningfully helpful way?

I can understand that changing camber will very marginally change toe.

Did your rig have excessive toe out? What amount does it have now?

In your OP, you state that it has too much toe in (wheels pointing inwards) - that suggests trackrods that are too long. Bent ackerman plate would not cause toe in.

As for shock socks - modelsport sell these...
POS Shock Socks

 

[chipster]

Have you bent the Ackerman plate? That will effectively shorten the track rods, giving excessive toe-out.

No the Ackerman is perfectly flat. There is nothing at all bent or broken and all the bearings have been cleaned and coated with a thin film of silicone to help relocating them. It came new with toe in

 

[Jeffwazz]

Ahhhhh, just looked at the photo again.

Something seems to be amiss though. Needing to compensate with that many spacers suggests that the track rods are too long - which they shouldn't be as they're solid

 

[Horatio]

Ahhhhh, just looked at the photo again.

Something seems to be amiss though. Needing to compensate with that many spacers suggests that the track rods are too long - which they shouldn't be as they're solid

Koma put the photo of his car I think.

Putting spacers behind all the pillow balls widens the track width of the car, so it would make the track rods relatively shorter.

But it's far from ideal, moving the pillow balls that far out from the arms.

 

[chipster]

Please take a picture of your rig's toe.

How can messing with the camber usefully change the toe in any meaningfully helpful way?

I can understand that changing camber will very marginally change toe.

Did your rig have excessive toe out? What amount does it have now?

In your OP, you state that it has too much toe in (wheels pointing inwards) - that suggests trackrods that are too long. Bent ackerman plate would not cause toe in.

As for shock socks - modelsport sell these...
POS Shock Socks

Hi found the shock socks, a must have stop the dust getting everywhere. Thanks. As for the toe in. It came brand new from KLMS like that. It is now nearly straight. For a £400+ model I would expect adjustable toe in/out. My 1/10 HSP buggy was about half that and everything is adjustable.
Another question. Why are there more positions on the Ackerman. I have tried all four holes and not noticed any change. Sorry about all these questions, the manual doesn’t really cover everything.

Koma put the photo of his car I think.

Putting spacers behind all the pillow balls widens the track width of the car, so it would make the track rods relatively shorter.

But it's far from ideal, moving the pillow balls that far out from the arms.

Another one I have noticed is that there is free play in the steering. The wheels move side to side a little, all the way back to the servo. I have tried to move the adjuster on the bottom of the servo saver spring but it won’t move. Would tightening this eliminate free play. It’s a great RC just a few little niggles.

 

[Horatio]

Hi found the shock socks, a must have stop the dust getting everywhere. Thanks. As for the toe in. It came brand new from KLMS like that. It is now nearly straight. For a £400+ model I would expect adjustable toe in/out. My 1/10 HSP buggy was about half that and everything is adjustable.
Another question. Why are there more positions on the Ackerman. I have tried all four holes and not noticed any change. Sorry about all these questions, the manual doesn’t really cover everything.


Another one I have noticed is that there is free play in the steering. The wheels move side to side a little, all the way back to the servo. I have tried to move the adjuster on the bottom of the servo saver spring but it won’t move. Would tightening this eliminate free play. It’s a great RC just a few little niggles.

Free play on the steering can develop at a number of points. On mine, play developed in the hubs at the pillow balls - easily remedied by tightening the the pillow ball socket until the excessive play is removed.

The other area where play was affecting both geometry and steering was the upper arms/wishbones. These had to be shimmed. Care needs to be taken that there is no binding either and that the arms still fall under their own weight following the addition of any shims. Mine needed just under 1mm of shim.

If slop develops rapidly, this can indicate a loose ball - check before they fall off!

The servo saver spring is very weak. You can tighten it up, but the bottom line is: unless you tighten it up all the way, it gives all the time and makes the steering vague/unresponsive - especially when you're giving it full beanz.

There are threads here dedicated to the springs that are much better suited for this job.

Original spring:

vs the upgrade:

Note the space between the coils affords saving action in the event of a tumble/knock etc - but has a much firmer rate affording much more positive steering.

 

[chipster]

Koma put the photo of his car I think.

Putting spacers behind all the pillow balls widens the track width of the car, so it would make the track rods relatively shorter.

But it's far from ideal, moving the pillow balls that far out from the arms.

Free play on the steering can develop at a number of points. On mine, play developed in the hubs at the pillow balls - easily remedied by tightening the the pillow ball socket until the excessive play is removed.

View attachment 4196

The other area where play was affecting both geometry and steering was the upper arms/wishbones. These had to be shimmed. Care needs to be taken that there is no binding either and that the arms still fall under their own weight following the addition of any shims. Mine needed just under 1mm of shim.

View attachment 4195

If slop develops rapidly, this can indicate a loose ball - check before they fall off!

The servo saver spring is very weak. You can tighten it up, but the bottom line is: unless you tighten it up all the way, it gives all the time and makes the steering vague/unresponsive - especially when you're giving it full beanz.

There are threads here dedicated to the springs that are much better suited for this job.

View attachment 4197
Original spring:


View attachment 4198vs the upgrade:
View attachment 4199
Note the space between the coils affords saving action in the event of a tumble/knock etc - but has a much firmer rate affording much more positive steering.

Hi thanks for all the input and photos. My free play is definitely from the servo saver nothing else moves ie pivot balls suspension arms. I can only presume that the spring needs tightening. I am taking it to my local rc shop Nitroflight for them to have a look at. They don’t charge for advise, luckily or I would owe them a small fortune. Thanks

 

[Horatio]

Hi thanks for all the input and photos. My free play is definitely from the servo saver nothing else moves ie pivot balls suspension arms. I can only presume that the spring needs tightening. I am taking it to my local rc shop Nitroflight for them to have a look at. They don’t charge for advise, luckily or I would owe them a small fortune. Thanks

OK, I suppose it depends on what your interpretation of 'play' is. The servo saver is a spring loaded cam, so by definition any spring (even the weak stock one) should prevent any play. Unless of course your thumb screw has parted company.

Replace the spring anyway - tightening up the collar all the way to compensate results in direct steering with no saving action for your servo. Result: your servo will just die prematurely. Sooner or later.

The ackerman plate has multiple holes to allow you to adjust the ackerman geometry. Ackerman ensures that the inside wheel steers at a greater angle, given that inside and outside wheels follow curves of different radii.

You don't need to mess with it generally and the way it's setup should be fine, but Corally being of circuit racing heritage allows for such geometry adjustments. Excessive toe in can adversely effect or even negate the benefits of the Ackerman angle.

 

[chipster]

OK, I suppose it depends on what your interpretation of 'play' is. The servo saver is a spring loaded cam, so by definition any spring (even the weak stock one) should prevent any play. Unless of course your thumb screw has parted company.

Replace the spring anyway - tightening up the collar all the way to compensate results in direct steering with no saving action for your servo. Result: your servo will just die prematurely. Sooner or later.

The ackerman plate has multiple holes to allow you to adjust the ackerman geometry. Ackerman ensures that the inside wheel steers at a greater angle, given that inside and outside wheels follow curves of different radii.



View attachment 4200
You don't need to mess with it generally and the way it's setup should be fine, but Corally being of circuit racing heritage allows for such geometry adjustments. Excessive toe in can adversely effect or even negate the benefits of the Ackerman angle.

Hi.
The amount of play is the wheels move from side to side about 5mm left and right from the neutral position this also moves the steering arms and servo saver and the servo. It’s as if it is rocking between the cogs. This also happens when there is power to the servo.
I have fitted a 7075 Ackerman this morning and it is still the same. I have checked every hex to make sure nothing is loose.
I have only used the buggy a handful of times since purchasing it new and it has been jumped or had any skatepark treatment. There is not movement from top to bottom of the wheels. If I remove the wheels it still does it. So it must be the servo saver. The adjustment nut on the bottom of the servo saver will not move at all. I even tried to grip it with pliers to turn it.
I have noticed since buying this model that any hex that goes into any metal part has been fitted with thread lock. Even using my pencil torch to heat up the area doesn’t work. I know we don’t want parts falling apart but some are a little extreme. Like the grub screws on the wheel hubs. I only just managed to free the front ones to fit HD hub carriers. The rear are locked solid and now one is rounded, so that’s not moving at all. The hubs would not come off if the grub screw fell out as the wheels cover the lock pin. As I said it is a great rc buggy but a little attention to detail would make a lot of difference.
Another one, the hex that holds the bottom of the shocks to the suspension arms just goes into the plastic suspension arm. Over time the threads in the arms will break down and the hex won’t tighten up. Having the hole all the way through means you could fit a nyloc nut on and they will last forever. Mine have only been out a couple of time to check the levels of the shocks. They are already not as tight as the were.
Another little niggle the rear body clip runs front to back. The body shell has an oval cut out for allowing for front geometry changes. Ideally the body pin should run across the cut out and not in line with it. This is a weak spot and in a tumble the shell would come away at the rear. I have fitted a large plastic washer to detract this from happening.
I have a few more pointers but enough waffle for now

 

[Horatio]

@chipster - you need to check the steering servo. It might have stripped teeth, which would explain the movement you describe.

Yes - threadlock keeps our rigs together, but when it gets into places it shouldn't, it majes taking stuff apart an absolute nightmare.

It really helps if you have precision drivers - like MIP, Hudy or Protek. The more precuse they are, the less times things end up getting stripped.

Even that won't help though if the type of threadlock used isn't hand tool friendly - especially on tiny little grub screws etc.

 

[chipster]

@chipster - you need to check the steering servo. It might have stripped teeth, which would explain the movement you describe.

Yes - threadlock keeps our rigs together, but when it gets into places it shouldn't, it majes taking stuff apart an absolute nightmare.

It really helps if you have precision drivers - like MIP, Hudy or Protek. The more precuse they are, the less times things end up getting stripped.

Even that won't help though if the type of threadlock used isn't hand tool friendly - especially on tiny little grub screws etc.

Mine are Arrowmax. I have a spare 2mm hex also for when this one has lost its edge. I have changed as many hexes as I can for the same size but 2.5mm head less chance of rounding either.

Would the servo have stripped its threads with less than 2 hours use. It’s the Corally fitted one so I wouldn’t expect it. The servo works perfectly and freely. I do have a high voltage all metal digital 40kg servo that’s in my MT. I will swap it out just to eliminate the servo.