Kagama Let's Talk About Chargers - Good, Bad, Ugly - What do you use for 6S?

[Horatio]

Was there any hint of it being a bad pack? Or even charger?

The smoke and vapours that come off them can be quite nasty!

No warning with mine whatsoever. That's what makes it so worrying. Thankfully, it was a small battery. Can you imagine this with a 6S 5500 or even bigger?! Oof. Not cool.

The other lesson I learnt was:

Don't charge up lipos inside the model - no matter how much of a faff it might be to reattach the battery. In the Heli, I'd positioned the battery for correct CoG, then basically destroyed it with fire.

 

[Jeffwazz]

I'm also in 2 minds about charging packs inside lipo bags. If it's in the bag, I'll not see it get puffy, but if it's not inside a bag then

 

[The Stig]

No warning with mine whatsoever. That's what makes it so worrying. Thankfully, it was a small battery. Can you imagine this with a 6S 5500 or even bigger?! Oof. Not cool.

The other lesson I learnt was:

Don't charge up lipos inside the model - no matter how much of a faff it might be to reattach the battery. In the Heli, I'd positioned the battery for correct CoG, then basically destroyed it with fire.

Rc rule nr 1. don't charge a lipo in the car or leave the battery connected when not driving

 

[Jeffwazz]

Or forget you've left your charger attached to the car battery with it sitting on top of the engine whilst you're driving home

 

[CCB-MN]

Agreed.

I do consider myself pretty fortunate that I’ve never had a larger battery go off, I can only imagine the damage and danger that a large battery would create.

Im pretty paranoid about charging now days seeing that my charging area is in my house. It’s probably part of the reason I’ve stuck with my very simple single battery charger for so long. Low, slow but it’s a simple circuit and they are good components. I do believe that I would appreciate the bt connection, I think it would let me rest easier knowing I could monitor that. I do have a wireless camera in that room that I can use to monitor things, but that only helps if you’re watching the live stream and I can’t stop things remotely the way they currently sit anyway.

lol, and yes, that fabled tale of charging lipos in the machine. I kinda feel like when you walk into the store and buy your first rc, no matter your age, clerk should promptly slap you in the face and yell, “never charge the battery in the machine”! That being said, I’ve done it myself. however after last summers fireball, I have not.

 

[Manolis]

Or just bang a long nail through the pack as a reminder to yourself what not to do with LiPos

Edit:- it's actually quite impressive, and in no way do I recommend that you do this....... Just stand up-wind

Actually i did some years before in a tiny lipo (1s) that was allready dead, and was impressed by the temperature from the temperature developed by the nail!

 

[The Stig]

Attach a dead lipo to long cable and charge it outside. Imagine that. Lipo will explode i think. Would be impressive.

 

[VaporTrail]

Is there any charger that will try to rejuvenate dead, or near dead cells, instead of beeping "low voltage" and stop?

DISCLAIMER: Implement these procedures at your own risk. It is always recommended to dispose of a lipo pack that has been run down below minimum voltage (3.2V per cell) for safety reasons. Always charge your batteries in a fire-safe container and away from flammable substances and/or materials. Never leave your lipo batteries unattended while charging. END DISCLAIMER


You can try charging the lipo as a NiMh; make sure that the NiMh voltage is close to what the nominal voltage of the lipo is. For example, a 2S pack would be charged as a 7.6v NiMh. Set the charge amperage low, like 0.5 - 0.8 amps. Monitor the voltage with a standalone voltage checker, and when you get to 3.2v per cell, take it off and then charge it as a lipo at 1.5-2 amps (depending on the mAh of the pack) until it gets up to about 3.6V per cell. Be sure to monitor the cells for puffing or for heat. If you get any of those at any stage of the charging process, then abort mission and handle the lipo carefully and dispose of it.

Once it gets to about 3.6-3.7V per cell, pull the pack off the charger and let it rest. Monitor the individual cell voltage for drops or imbalance. If there are no inconsistencies and the voltage remains roughly the same (.010 variance) as when you pulled the pack off the charger, then you may have resurrected your lipo. Put the pack back on the charger and make sure it's balance-charged up to 4.2V per cell at a low amperage, maybe around 2-2.5 amps, depending on mAh. Monitor for swelling and heat and make sure the voltages are the same for each cell. After it's fully charged, then do the same as when it hit 3.7V per cell; pull it off, monitor for heat, swelling and individual cell voltage.

Once it all looks good, you have to make a decision: are you willing to run that battery in your rig? There's a possibility that your pack may experience premature voltage sag, reduced performance and reduced runtime. There may also be an increased risk of catastrophic failure.



I have two SMC 4S packs that showed an error when I tried to charge them. The T200 said connection broken. This was after I soldered XT90s on to replace the EC5 connectors. I purchased the packs used off of Ebay.

I was super bummed and let the packs sit for a couple of months. Then I had the idea to try out the process above, which is something that I learned awhile back. One pack seemed to be resurrected and is still holding good voltage. It dropped from 3.8V per cell to something like 3.76 over the course of a week. No swelling or heat during the charge process. The other pack swelled during charging, but I don't know if that's because an individual pack is damaged or maybe because I inadvertently charged them as a 2S. I remember looking at the charger profile after I pulled the pack off and I saw 2S. I coulda swore I set it as a 4S but I couldn't recall accurately. That pack has since returned to just about normal size, but I think I'll be setting that up on my shooting line and send a pellet through it to watch the fireworks.

I still haven't made a decision about running the other "good" pack. I can swallow a pack burning up by itself, but if it takes an esc and melts some of the stuff on my chassis, that's a little harder to accept. Still trying to decide.

I would love to have seen that!

I've attached a nail to a long stick and poked some soft packs before. I dug a 1 foot deep hole in my yard and commenced with the shenanigans. I did the first one at night, and I'm glad I did, because I was able to see just how far that flame can shoot out. White, almost transparent at the edges, blue in the middle and transparent at the pack. Flames shot out about a good 2-3 feet.

The other pack I did during the day, and all I saw was a hint of blue. Thankfully I had the experience of seeing the other pack at night, so I knew to keep my distance. I can only imagine what would've happened if my first experience was during the day. Could've gotten burned real easy.

No warning with mine whatsoever. That's what makes it so worrying. Thankfully, it was a small battery. Can you imagine this with a 6S 5500 or even bigger?! Oof. Not cool.

The other lesson I learnt was:

Don't charge up lipos inside the model - no matter how much of a faff it might be to reattach the battery. In the Heli, I'd positioned the battery for correct CoG, then basically destroyed it with fire.

Yep. I never charge any batteries while they're inside the model. I always pull them out.

I'm also in 2 minds about charging packs inside lipo bags. If it's in the bag, I'll not see it get puffy, but if it's not inside a bag then

Mine are usually charged on the floor (ceramic tile) and away from flammable stuff. They're usually stored in a lipo bag or an ammo can. And the furthest I'm away from them is about 4-5 feet.

I caught one of my Turnigy 2S packs dying that way. They were on the charger and I was going through stuff on my phone and I heard a "tick"; almost like a small plastic piece breaking. Looked over to my lipos and nothing seemed unusual. Heard another "tick" and looked more closely. Felt the pack, and there was no heat on it, but I heard the tick again. Figured out it was the pack that was making that noise so I pulled it off and rushed outside to put it in the concrete sink. Set up a couple of cinder blocks on a metal plate and dropped the lipo in the hollow part.

In the morning, the pack had swollen up so bad that the case had separated quite badly. I'm surprised it didn't explode.

 

[The Stig]

When charging, i put lipos in a bat-safe. For transport in a Ammo case. When i storage them, i leave them in my bat-safe. Sofar so good

 

[Horatio]

I store my cells in a .50 cal ammunition box. When I charge them, I placed them on a glass mat, with the batteries inside a fibreglass bag.

I routinely check individual cell voltages and once every month, I check the internal resistances for tell tale signs.

In the summer, my cells are stored outside. Over winter, I bring them into a corner of the house and check on them frequently, ensuring the storage voltage is maintained.

The Onyx Graphene packs are not specified as HV, but it's evident they have a significantly higher voltage, which means that it's tricky to get the LV cut off on ESC's to work right. Ditto for storage voltage.

 

[VaporTrail]

I store my cells in a .50 cal ammunition box. When I charge them, I placed them on a glass mat, with the batteries inside a fibreglass bag.

I routinely check individual cell voltages and once every month, I check the internal resistances for tell tale signs.

In the summer, my cells are stored outside. Over winter, I bring them into a corner of the house and check on them frequently, ensuring the storage voltage is maintained.

The Onyx Graphene packs are not specified as HV, but it's evident they have a significantly higher voltage, which means that it's tricky to get the LV cut off on ESC's to work right. Ditto for storage voltage.

I need to incorporate checking the IR into my routine...that's a good idea. As for the LVC and storage for the HV packs, I usually set my esc voltage cutoff medium or high. Usually works out pretty good on the Castle systems, a little inconsistent on the HW systems. If I can set a specific voltage, that's even better, as I set the cutoff at 3.5-3.7V per cell. Lowest I've gone is 3.4V for my touring cars. Storage for my HVs I usually have them around 3.85V per cell.

 

[KnowAir]

I need to incorporate checking the IR into my routine...that's a good idea. As for the LVC and storage for the HV packs, I usually set my esc voltage cutoff medium or high. Usually works out pretty good on the Castle systems, a little inconsistent on the HW systems. If I can set a specific voltage, that's even better, as I set the cutoff at 3.5-3.7V per cell. Lowest I've gone is 3.4V for my touring cars. Storage for my HVs I usually have them around 3.85V per cell.

I was thinking of trying some HV batteries, now that you bring up the LVC situation, maybe I'll pass. I only own HW and HW rtr variations, sounds like more hassle than it's worth for me.

 

[VaporTrail]

I was thinking of trying some HV batteries, now that you bring up the LVC situation, maybe I'll pass. I only own HW and HW rtr variations, sounds like more hassle than it's worth for me.

To be honest, it won't be too drastic of a change. You can keep your LVC to around the same as a normal pack. I usually like to be cautious with my cutoff, so I usually set it for 3.5-3.7V no matter if it's a HV or a standard pack. In my EZRun escs, I set the voltage cutoff to "high" just to be sure that it's not being drained too low. That usually equates to the pack being around 3.7-3.8 per cell when it cuts off, which is fine by me. Also make sure your charger can get them up to 4.35 per cell (as opposed to the 4.2 for a standard). Also be sure that your escs can handle the increased voltage. For example, my XR8 Pro handles up to 4S, so I won't be putting a HV 4S in it any time soon.

I've tried HV packs in my EB48.3, and to be honest, there is a difference, but it's not huge. I wouldn't rely on a HV pack to give me the edge in a race; I'd put more faith in spending the extra hours improving my lines. Now if a guy runs his lines as good as I do but has a HV pack, he may get the drop on me, but only if he stays more consistent than I do.

 

[Horatio]

Yes, I'm finding surface temps are the bigger issue with 0-60mph and speed runs. Followed by traction/lack of it.

That being said, it is odd that the LVC on my Torox isn't cutting out on my Onyx pack. I bring it in when it feels soft - which one would assume is the voltage dropping - and therefore logically conclude the LVC would also detect before I could. But no.

Always cuts out fine on my Gens (are spammers?!) around 5%. So, it doesn't make sense to me.

Question: Why are Gens auto corrected to spammers by this site? Could someone solve the mystery for me, please?

 

[razorrc]

I like my Gens D300. 150W/channel on AC means you can charge two 6S packs at about 5.5-6A. $129. And it's tiny.

https://gens tattu.com/gens-ace-imars-d300-g-tech-channel-ac-dc-300w-700w-rc-battery-charger-us-white/

 

[VaporTrail]

Yes, I'm finding surface temps are the bigger issue with 0-60mph and speed runs. Followed by traction/lack of it.

That being said, it is odd that the LVC on my Torox isn't cutting out on my Onyx pack. I bring it in when it feels soft - which one would assume is the voltage dropping - and therefore logically conclude the LVC would also detect before I could. But no.

Always cuts out fine on my Gens (are spammers?!) around 5%. So, it doesn't make sense to me.

Question: Why are Gens auto corrected to spammers by this site? Could someone solve the mystery for me, please?

With my touring cars surface was always the issue until we secured some tennis courts. I absolutely loved the traction there. It was hell on the foams, but I was fine with that.

As for the LVC, I recall reading somewhere that the HW escs will sometimes misread voltages if left on the auto-calculate option for reading packs. Since the Torox appears to be a rebranded HW, I wonder if that is the cause, although if it reads your GA pack fine there may be something else afoot.

And GA are referred to spammers because apparently they were spamming members here at one point, even after Woody asked them to stop.

I've only tried their 1S packs in my Atom. Their other packs are a little on the pricey side, so if I'm going to spend that kind of money, I'd rather have a Fantom or a SMC.

Th

I like my Gens D300. 150W/channel on AC means you can charge two 6S packs at about 5.5-6A. $129. And it's tiny.

https://gens tattu.com/gens-ace-imars-d300-g-tech-channel-ac-dc-300w-700w-rc-battery-charger-us-white/

Hrmm...that does sound nice. I don't have any 6S packs, so I guess I'll be fine with my current charger. What I  would like to find is the adapter to use it as a DC charger when I'm out at the track. Before, chargers always seemed to have that cord. Nowadays finding a supplied DC cord is like finding a hen's tooth.