Kagama How bouncy was your Kagama4s out the box

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AggyMi

AggyMi

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So out the box how much suspension tuning did you all have to do, mine seems a bit lively in the rear too be honest.

All the YT vids I saw before purchase said suspension was tuned perfectly out the box, but mine definitely bounces.
 
AggyMi said:
So out the box how much suspension tuning did you all have to do, mine seems a bit lively in the rear too be honest.

All the YT vids I saw before purchase said suspension was tuned perfectly out the box, but mine definitely bounces.
Click to expand...
Sounds like they need some shock oil. 👍
 
AggyMi said:
So out the box how much suspension tuning did you all have to do, mine seems a bit lively in the rear too be honest.

All the YT vids I saw before purchase said suspension was tuned perfectly out the box, but mine definitely bounces.
Click to expand...
Mine was ok now that I’ve driving the Spark and setup shocks yea she was. I changed my shock tensions and went to a higher weight shock oil since that and installing a 18t pinion mine feels great all the way around. I did 18 because with the stock bracket the 17 seemed loose with the 18t feeling and sounding perfect. Even though it’s a Amazon brand unlike my Spark I haven’t had any stripping teeth issues
 
Both of my Asugas also needed softer springs.
They were so bouncy, they couldn't run in a straight line on a gravel road. Very hard to control. There was no negative shock travel at all.
My daughter was running a Mojave 6s and the Asugas couldn't keep up with it.
I set them up with stock Mojave 6s BLX shocks and springs. 1000CST front and rear.
My Muraco's suspension, on the other hand, was too soft out of the box. It sagged so bad, it was almost rubbing its belly.
I put Kraton EXB shocks and springs on that.
But for me, that's all part of the hobby.
Modifying, adjusting and tuning till you get it running the way you like.
 
Might be too thick oil, can’t remember if it was on Syncro or kagama4 but razor rc went thinner oil on his as was too stiff out the box. I was looking at kagama le manual says it’s comes with 1000cst which think is rather high also
 
Nelson.81 said:
Might be too thick oil, can’t remember if it was on Syncro or kagama4 but razor rc went thinner oil on his as was too stiff out the box. I was looking at kagama le manual says it’s comes with 1000cst which think is rather high also
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This is my Spark set up that works best for me, may seem like the shocks will be set stiff on rough dirt gravel for me gives great handling with no bounce on jumps. 500k center 10k front 30k rear diff, front spring 13mm and 9.15 rear measured from the adjuster to the collar above where the threads start using medium Spark springs with 800 oil in both shocks. I’m crazy anal about documentation always trying something different taking notes on behavior. Anyways this has so far been the best Spark set up for me and my driving BTW amazing on the road as well with a 15t pinion my Tekno 18t arrived today that I’ll probably test with some tomorrow

image.webp
 
The thing with suspension - it's all about compromise.

If you run off road where there are bumps, you want the suspension compliant and willing to move quickly - so softer spring rate with lighter oil.

You also need enough ride height - so more preload.

If you jump a lot, you need the spring rate firm enough not to chassis slap on landing. But not so firm that it doesn't absorb the impacts.

As the car gets higher, the more inclined it is to roll, so can be more prone to grip roll, but will land better from jumps.

Softer springs require lighter shock oil.

Firmer springs require heavier shock oil.

If conditions are slippery - softer suspension offers more traction.

People often mistake adding more preload with increasing the rate. The only way you can change the spring rate is by replacing the spring.

I found the Kronos XTR spring rate was excellent for running on bumpy grass - all I had to do was find the lowest I could run the car without bottoming out. The truck cornered like a racing Truggy.

If your buggy doesn't have enough droop - that can make for a very unforgiving ride - one more suited to street/tarmac. If the wheels bounce off the ground, it's not setup right for the surface you're on.

It's a huge subject and there are always more than one way to get the results you want.

Check out So dialed - it's an excellent site. Suspension tuning is pure science - but it's also an art!
 
It definitely is in my younger days I road motorcrossed drag raced bikes as you said setting up suspension is a huge thing. Like in my day I road a limited 2007 Yamaha R1 with a stock length that ran 9’s which was huge for that year wheelie monster. People couldn’t understand that setting the bike up for what I was doing ment so much, made me a good amount of money too. I’ll definitely check out the site have watched several videos on utube that got me started on the Spark. Bought the hard springs didn’t like them for my conditions so back to mid and definitely will be trying more things as I get more weight oils etc
 
shortround9191 said:
Mine was ok now that I’ve driving the Spark and setup shocks yea she was. I changed my shock tensions and went to a higher weight shock oil since that and installing a 18t pinion mine feels great all the way around. I did 18 because with the stock bracket the 17 seemed loose with the 18t feeling and sounding perfect. Even though it’s a Amazon brand unlike my Spark I haven’t had any stripping teeth issues
Click to expand...
Mines running a 17T , goes like poop of a shovel, really have to roll the throttle in to keep the front wheels on the ground. 18T must be mental!
 
SirCrashALot said:
Both of my Asugas also needed softer springs.
They were so bouncy, they couldn't run in a straight line on a gravel road. Very hard to control. There was no negative shock travel at all.
My daughter was running a Mojave 6s and the Asugas couldn't keep up with it.
I set them up with stock Mojave 6s BLX shocks and springs. 1000CST front and rear.
My Muraco's suspension, on the other hand, was too soft out of the box. It sagged so bad, it was almost rubbing its belly.
I put Kraton EXB shocks and springs on that.
But for me, that's all part of the hobby.
Modifying, adjusting and tuning till you get it running the way you like.
Click to expand...
Insightful, I definitely think mine needs a lot less rebound. I've only got my little mojave grom to compare it too, but when I drop test that it's planted. It just lands and sticks to the floor, it's almost like it's sucked down.
 
Nelson.81 said:
Might be too thick oil, can’t remember if it was on Syncro or kagama4 but razor rc went thinner oil on his as was too stiff out the box. I was looking at kagama le manual says it’s comes with 1000cst which think is rather high also
Click to expand...
From the manual...

1000018999.webp

I definitely think you might be onto something by going thinner.... I never drive round factories anyway 😂
 
Horatio said:
The thing with suspension - it's all about compromise.

If you run off road where there are bumps, you want the suspension compliant and willing to move quickly - so softer spring rate with lighter oil.

You also need enough ride height - so more preload.

If you jump a lot, you need the spring rate firm enough not to chassis slap on landing. But not so firm that it doesn't absorb the impacts.

As the car gets higher, the more inclined it is to roll, so can be more prone to grip roll, but will land better from jumps.

Softer springs require lighter shock oil.

Firmer springs require heavier shock oil.

If conditions are slippery - softer suspension offers more traction.

People often mistake adding more preload with increasing the rate. The only way you can change the spring rate is by replacing the spring.

I found the Kronos XTR spring rate was excellent for running on bumpy grass - all I had to do was find the lowest I could run the car without bottoming out. The truck cornered like a racing Truggy.

If your buggy doesn't have enough droop - that can make for a very unforgiving ride - one more suited to street/tarmac. If the wheels bounce off the ground, it's not setup right for the surface you're on.

It's a huge subject and there are always more than one way to get the results you want.

Check out So dialed - it's an excellent site. Suspension tuning is pure science - but it's also an art!
Click to expand...
A very insightful post, lots to digest there. Completely agree with what you're saying about the compromises of suspension adjustment, I could tell you a little story about the weekend I lifted my SUV 50mm and then added 31" tyres 😬 waved goodbye to my bushes and cornering.

Will definitely check out that website. Cheers
 
AggyMi said:
A very insightful post, lots to digest there. Completely agree with what you're saying about the compromises of suspension adjustment, I could tell you a little story about the weekend I lifted my SUV 50mm and then added 31" tyres 😬 waved goodbye to my bushes and cornering.

Will definitely check out that website. Cheers
Click to expand...
You're most welcome. 🤩

After correct choice of tyres, suspension tuning is a very close 2nd - with the setup and alignment of the shocks being the primary component. 👍
 
AggyMi said:
Insightful, I definitely think mine needs a lot less rebound. I've only got my little mojave grom to compare it too, but when I drop test that it's planted. It just lands and sticks to the floor, it's almost like it's sucked down.
Click to expand...
Try moving the shocks to the inner position on the tower that will soften the suspension vertically.
 
Atomic Skull said:
Try moving the shocks to the inner position on the tower that will soften the suspension vertically.
Click to expand...
Would love to but Kagama4 doesn't have adjustable shock mounts, I suppose I could move the bottom of the shock to the outer hole on the arm but that's only going to be a fractional difference
 
AggyMi said:
Would love to but Kagama4 doesn't have adjustable shock mounts, I suppose I could move the bottom of the shock to the outer hole on the arm but that's only going to be a fractional difference
Click to expand...
'Bouncing' either means your car is 'over-sprung' or 'under-damped' - only you will know which.

I'm guessing the spring rate is stock.

So my bet is that the shocks require re-filling with appropriate weight oil, wait for all air bubbles to dissipate and then make sure the shocks are properly bled.

If your shocks are over filled, they will lock up solid causing the car to bounce.

1000033746.webp
 
Once the shocks are correctly filled with oil and air bubbles removed.

Moving the shocks outwards on the arm will essentially lay the shocks down slightly and reduce grip roll on higher traction surfaces and make the suspension feel harder initially.
 
Atomic Skull said:
Try moving the shocks to the inner position on the tower that will soften the suspension vertically.
Click to expand...
Would love to but Kagama4 doesn't have adjustable shock mounts, I suppose I could move the bottom of the shock to the outer hole on the arm
Horatio said:
Recommended oils for the Kagama 4 are exactly the same as the Kronos XTR

CST value same as CPS

Front: 600 CST = 47.5 wt
Rear: 500 CST = 40 wt

View attachment 9271
Click to expand...
Yeah I think I already concluded somewhere further up that the factory supplied oil of 1000/800 needs to be changed, will get some 600/500 ordered and go from there.
 
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