Kagama Alloy Front/Rear Hubs On Kagama/Kronos

[Horatio]

Well I've just pulled the trigger on the Scorched Parts front and rear hubs along with the 3mm carbon steering stubs.

I'm fully prepared to get Arrma stub axles front and rear if necessary.

The inner bearings are 25 x 5 all round - so should be much better than the older 4 mm that V1 - V5 Kratons used to suffer.

Precision for bearings, pivot balls and delrin shells - all ideal and reasonably priced IMO.

The hubs are slightly heavier by about 5 g per corner, but they are very precisely machined and true, thus should run smoother.

Whatever happens - they'll look good doing it!

I'll mate them together on the bench and find out exactly what I need.

I'm happy with my rigs upper & lower arms, but if I have to change the lower ones, so be it.

Possibly will need to change the track rods and rear turnbuckles, if the Kronos ones work out too short. If so:

Let's see what the postman brings.

Protek 170SBL arrived today. I was thinking about putting it in the T2E, but at this rate I might be better off putting it in the Kronos!

Either way, the Savage will be getting a nice new upgrade with whichever AGF 81BHMW comes out!

 

[Horatio]

I’m sure it’s very similar to the Gold process we used years ago on car parts for those who wanted the gold bling. I think the 7075 is excellent but not sure if totally necessary on hubs unless super extreme bashing. I’d think for most who are light mod bashing the lower quality aluminum will hold up just fine while if you want bling there’s color choices.

I happily use turtle racing stuff on the Baja - that's 6061 stuff. It's got better corrosion resistance and is cheaper.

7075 T6 is stiffer/harder - thus ideal for precision CNC parts like hubs. My understanding is that Scorched Parts are already making stuff for aerospace, so as Dave likes RC speed running - he decided to make a lucrative sideline to his main business.

I ain't going 224mph anytime soon, but I know for a fact my XTR won't be hanging around.

 

[Horatio]

And here they are in the flesh.

They are exquisite. Absolute perfection. Shout out to Dave who combined the shipping for me and got them to me the next day!

 

[Horatio]

These weights are with bearings. 1.2 gram difference!

This will require Kraton axles, front and rear on these V6 hubs. These are on the way! The axles are supported at the wider part right next to the slot, so the Corally spring steel axles are too long and don't work with the larger bearings Arrma use on the inside of the hub.

Using Kraton hubs with Corally lower arms will result in a narrower track width from what I can tell, but it won't be by much - perhaps 15mm.

I am not in a hurry to change my lower arms (or front uppers) with carbon fibre inserts. These offer durability and excellent rigidity for response. Changing them to RPM arms would be a shame, so I'm going to try and work around it instead.

Very minor fettling and the rear hubs mate with the Corally lower arms, with about 0.5mm of material shaved - no issue. Upper camber link and ball fits exactly. The rear hubs inner bearing is 24x5!! Ditto for the inner front hub bearing. So V6 axles are the only option. It should be possible to fit the CVD axles to the Corally CVD.

The rear camber links and drive shafts can also be tinkered with to a point.

At the front, I'm trying to establish whether using the Corally pivot balls is an option - I think it is. The balls look to be a very similar size to the ones Arrma use.

 

[Nelson.81]

Well I've just pulled the trigger on the Scorched Parts front and rear hubs along with the 3mm carbon steering stubs.

I'm fully prepared to get Arrma stub axles front and rear if necessary.

The inner bearings are 25 x 5 all round - so should be much better than the older 4 mm that V1 - V5 Kratons used to suffer.

View attachment 9412
View attachment 9413
View attachment 9414
Precision for bearings, pivot balls and delrin shells - all ideal and reasonably priced IMO.

The hubs are slightly heavier by about 5 g per corner, but they are very precisely machined and true, thus should run smoother.

Whatever happens - they'll look good doing it!

I'll mate them together on the bench and find out exactly what I need.

I'm happy with my rigs upper & lower arms, but if I have to change the lower ones, so be it.

Possibly will need to change the track rods and rear turnbuckles, if the Kronos ones work out too short. If so:

View attachment 9415

Let's see what the postman brings.

Protek 170SBL arrived today. I was thinking about putting it in the T2E, but at this rate I might be better off putting it in the Kronos!

View attachment 9416

Either way, the Savage will be getting a nice new upgrade with whichever AGF 81BHMW comes out!

View attachment 9417

God dam you lol you got them pretty quick I’m a little annoyed because I was on the mailing list to be notified when the parts where back in stock & still haven’t got the email & you have your parts already , I’ll get mine ordered now too, if you you need to change your arms also it might not be the end of the world you’d be able to fit the scorched titanium axles too(5mm longer than corally ones I looked at them) I’ll also be ordering typhon titanium axles for my buggy only 1mm longer than corally so hopefully I won’t need to change my arms . And you’ve changed that many parts on your Kronos now that you could probably rebuild a stock Kronos xtr on original chassis again . They look great can’t wait to a set myself , still waiting on my vitavon hubs to arrive for my Kronos too .

 

[Atomic Skull]

At the front, I'm trying to establish whether using the Corally pivot balls is an option - I think it is. The balls look to be a very similar size to the ones Arrma use.

Arrma uses 14mm balls same as Corally but the standoff is about 1mm longer. The balls have a real world diameter of around 13.74mm~13.85mm due to tolerance.

 

[KnowAir]

View attachment 9425
View attachment 9426
These weights are with bearings. 1.2 gram difference!

This will require Kraton axles, front and rear on these V6 hubs. These are on the way! The axles are supported at the wider part right next to the slot, so the Corally spring steel axles are too long and don't work with the larger bearings Arrma use on the inside of the hub.

Using Kraton hubs with Corally lower arms will result in a narrower track width from what I can tell, but it won't be by much - perhaps 15mm.

I am not in a hurry to change my lower arms (or front uppers) with carbon fibre inserts. These offer durability and excellent rigidity for response. Changing them to RPM arms would be a shame, so I'm going to try and work around it instead.

Very minor fettling and the rear hubs mate with the Corally lower arms, with about 0.5mm of material shaved - no issue. Upper camber link and ball fits exactly. The rear hubs inner bearing is 24x5!! Ditto for the inner front hub bearing. So V6 axles are the only option. It should be possible to fit the CVD axles to the Corally CVD.

The rear camber links and drive shafts can also be tinkered with to a point.

At the front, I'm trying to establish whether using the Corally pivot balls is an option - I think it is. The balls look to be a very similar size to the ones Arrma use.

Sweet! I don’t think the axles or cvd’s changed between the v5 and v6 Arrmas, just the hubs and bearings have a larger od inner bearing. Arrma calls for the same part numbers for cvd and axles for both. The narrower width is the drawback with running Arrma hubs and TC arms IMO. For speed running though I doubt it’ll be an issue. Can’t wait to see it come together brother!

 

[Horatio]

Arrma uses 14mm balls same as Corally but the standoff is about 1mm longer. The balls have a real world diameter of around 13.74mm~13.85mm due to tolerance.

Excellent - thank you! I can live with that.

 

[Horatio]

God dam you lol you got them pretty quick I’m a little annoyed because I was on the mailing list to be notified when the parts where back in stock & still haven’t got the email & you have your parts already , I’ll get mine ordered now too, if you you need to change your arms also it might not be the end of the world you’d be able to fit the scorched titanium axles too(5mm longer than corally ones I looked at them) I’ll also be ordering typhon titanium axles for my buggy only 1mm longer than corally so hopefully I won’t need to change my arms . And you’ve changed that many parts on your Kronos now that you could probably rebuild a stock Kronos xtr on original chassis again . They look great can’t wait to a set myself , still waiting on my vitavon hubs to arrive for my Kronos too .

Oops - very sorry - my bad....

I was on the same mailing list and I ordered the rear hubs first. Then around midnight I checked the status of the front hubs and they were back in!! So I emailed Dave to combine the shipping. All done the next morning. Not sure why the stock request updates aren't working though?

 

[Horatio]

Sweet! I don’t think the axles or cvd’s changed between the v5 and v6 Arrmas, just the hubs and bearings have a larger od inner bearing. Arrma calls for the same part numbers for cvd and axles for both. The narrower width is the drawback with running Arrma hubs and TC arms IMO. For speed running though I doubt it’ll be an issue. Can’t wait to see it come together brother!

Excellent - it sounds doable. I don't want it getting too narrow - but 15-20mm is tolerable.

Let's wait and see what turns up. I had no idea my XTR was going to be a Kraton impersonator!

 

[Horatio]

Well while I'm waiting for axles, I've measured a couple of things.

On Corally axles, the cup & slot sits up against the bearing. The measurement from the cup & slot to the hole for the hex pin is 30mm.

The Kraton's rear hubs, whilst smaller, have the exact same measurement from the pivot to the outermost face of the bearing. 18.0mm.

Could one of you kind Kraton owning folk measure the distance from the flange on the Kraton axle to the hole for the hub pin, please.

If they're the same - or similar-ish - I'm laughing. There will be no change in track width if I can use the same hexes.

Certainly nothing like the 15mm difference I originally thought.

 

[KnowAir]

Well while I'm waiting for axles, I've measured a couple of things.

On Corally axles, the cup & slot sits up against the bearing. The measurement from the cup & slot to the hole for the hex pin is 30mm.

The Kraton's rear hubs, whilst smaller, have the exact same measurement from the pivot to the outermost face of the bearing. 18.0mm.

View attachment 9440
View attachment 9441
View attachment 9442
Could one of you kind Kraton owning folk measure the distance from the flange on the Kraton axle to the hole for the hub pin, please.

If they're the same - or similar-ish - I'm laughing. There will be no change in track width if I can use the same hexes.

Certainly nothing like the 15mm difference I originally thought.

Sure can! I’m calling it 33mm.

 

[KnowAir]

You could easily make that up with correct hub adapters. Let me see what I got here.

 

[KnowAir]

I think Arrma Fire Team hub adapters will work. Top to bottom, TC, Fire Team, Mojave, Redcat Kaiju, Kraton v5.

 

[KnowAir]

FWIW, the ball end of the Arrma dogbone is 10mm. Not sure what the TC are.

 

[Horatio]

Brilliant - you're a gent! Excellent info all in one place thanks to your encyclopedic knowledge on so many rigs! Cheers buddy.

 

[Atomic Skull]

These aftermarket Kraton hexes are much thicker than the stock ones, and a LOT cheaper.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806817810503.html

 

[Horatio]

These aftermarket Kraton hexes are much thicker than the stock ones, and a LOT cheaper.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806817810503.html

The position of the hole for the pin is now the key for getting hexes to work.

At the rear, everything will work out spot on using Corally hexes, provided I use 2.5mm of shims OR use hexes that move the hex towards the hub by the same.

However, it's a different story at the front. Using the Corally arms, the track width will be narrowed by about 15 mm unless it is mitigated.

Thankfully, the catalogue of wheel hexes that Knowair listed in order shows some viable options that should help at the rear. Some hex extenders should be an option at the front.

The Fireteam Hexes should fit the rear and would mitigate the need for shims, looking at the pin position.

We shall find out in the week. The effort will be well worth it.

 

[Horatio]

These look interesting. They have 2 options with the hole for the pin. They also extend track width by 2mm.

Edit: I've pulled the trigger on these purely because of the flexibility. At the rear, I can use them in the Fireteam hole and end up with the same track width as I have now.

At the front, I can use the Kraton hole with shims and gain back the 3+2 = 5mm each side (10mm). Then by extending the pivot balls, with shims behind them, 2.5mm each side (5mm), I should in theory find the lost track width from retaining the beautiful Corally monoqocue arms. Win win.

Well - that's the theory of it at any rate - so let's see .....

 

[Horatio]

8.2 x 16 x 3mm spacer.

M8 x 12 x 0.2 shim

So at now with the hexes sorted, with 2 pin positions, I can extend the track width at the front without drama.

The front Corally 'CVD' looks good as new. A fabulous example of how PTFE GT85 can extend the life of universal joints.

This now has to be disassembled. The bone part needs to be mated to the Arrma axle, which seems to be a straightforward swap around.

The Corally Pivot balls are 13.6mm, so very close to the Arrma ones Atomic Skull measured. Within 0.1 - 0.2mm. Nothing to worry about!

Couple of bits arriving over the next day or two - then I'll show the finished Corally Kraton XTR.