Kagama Rear Suspension/Drive shaft induced oscillation

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Horatio said:
To add: if you haven't yet balanced your wheels, you don't need to be worrying too much about driveshafts.

From what has been described here, it could well be outdrive slots are chewed and/or cups in the axles. If the slots have divots in them, the pins wont move freely and will bind - most notably when there is an angle. This will happen past a certain limit of droop AND suspension travel on any rig using this type of drivetrain.

It's not a geometry issue.
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Do you own one?
 
Horatio said:
No, I own a heavily modified Kronos XTR.
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The Kronos XTR is a roller and has different suspension, you can change the geometry, the Kagama 4s is RTR and has fixed linkage, which I think is good for a basher, but the droop setting might become the limiting variable unless the geometry allows full range. I'm not sure why you are stating it doesn't have a geometry problem to someone who is experienceing accelerated wear in a product you don't own, but I'll take that under advisement. Are you aware that nearly everyone who bought one of these destroyed the front CVD's on the first battery and TC supplied a free repair kit to solve the problem?
 
Stattle said:
The Kronos XTR is a roller and has different suspension, you can change the geometry, the Kagama 4s is RTR and has fixed linkage, which I think is good for a basher, but the droop setting might become the limiting variable unless the geometry allows full range. I'm not sure why you are stating it doesn't have a geometry problem to someone who is experienceing accelerated wear in a product you don't own, but I'll take that under advisement. Are you aware that nearly everyone who bought one of these destroyed the front CVD's on the first battery and TC supplied a free repair kit to solve the problem?
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Well of course it does, along with a different drive line angles, arm lengths, adjustable shock angles, camber link positions, turn buckles, trackrods etc.

But the fact remains how dog bones work, how diff outputs work, how they wear out and how balancing wheels is no less important than a failed driveshaft.

Likewise, your suppositions that a longer upper link will give you more negative camber is not correct.

Incorrectly balanced wheels will hastily bring about more rapid failure in other areas of the car, including bearings, hubs, pivot points, axles and driveshafts.

If you Google such alleged issues - it brings you to here. I don't see anything about this anywhere else, but fair play to TC - if they're handing out replacement revised parts - problem solved, right?

I will stated that the hardened spring steel out drives used throughout TC's range - bearing in mind many of the Kagama 6S parts work with my old XTR - really work a treat.

TC were very kindly handing those out to people too, but I waited for my standard black ones to wear out before I swapped them for the much harder spring steel ones.

I don't correlate driveshaft issues with a geometry problem. The fact that the affected end of the rig is unable to tolerate droop indicates a driveshaft issue, an axle problem or output drive issue.

Or in other words, vibration, or the apparent motion of an arm travelling up and down whilst off the ground is likely only going to be caused by those rotating parts - including unbalanced wheels, or especially wheels that are wet inside.
 
Horatio said:
Well of course it does, along with a different drive line angles, arm lengths, adjustable shock angles, camber link positions, turn buckles, trackrods etc.

But the fact remains how dog bones work, how diff outputs work, how they wear out and how balancing wheels is no less important than a failed driveshaft.

Likewise, your suppositions that a longer upper link will give you more negative camber is not correct.

Incorrectly balanced wheels will hastily bring about more rapid failure in other areas of the car, including bearings, hubs, pivot points, axles and driveshafts.

If you Google such alleged issues - it brings you to here. I don't see anything about this anywhere else, but fair play to TC - if they're handing out replacement revised parts - problem solved, right?

I will stated that the hardened spring steel out drives used throughout TC's range - bearing in mind many of the Kagama 6S parts work with my old XTR - really work a treat.

TC were very kindly handing those out to people too, but I waited for my standard black ones to wear out before I swapped them for the much harder spring steel ones.

I don't correlate driveshaft issues with a geometry problem. The fact that the affected end of the rig is unable to tolerate droop indicates a driveshaft issue, an axle problem or output drive issue.

Or in other words, vibration, or the apparent motion of an arm travelling up and down whilst off the ground is likely only going to be caused by those rotating parts - including unbalanced wheels, or especially wheels that are wet inside.
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Let's agree to disagree.
 
Stattle said:
Let's agree to disagree.
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How about we agree to:

Your only posts here are to negatively criticise TC, their manuals and their Kagama 4S, which has been widely hailed as an excellent machine. Razor here does not concur with your allegations. A look through YouTube shows a pretty unanimously good view on the Kagama 4S.

Your suppositions are incorrect. You haven't confirmed you've balanced the wheels, or tried the rears on the front just to see. Poor logic. Only happy to come to the table with problems.

The issue occured with dog bones AND the CVD's you replaced them with.

No photos, no videos, just your words. As many threads started as messages posted.

This rings alarm bells for me. I call BS.

Perhaps your rig is broken. Perhaps it has a manufacturing defect - but the way you're going about things here, none of us - besides you - are ever going to know, because: zero facts.

Mods/Woodie - be advised. 👍
 
Horatio said:
How about we agree to:

Your only posts here are to negatively criticise TC, their manuals and their Kagama 4S, which has been widely hailed as an excellent machine. Razor here does not concur with your allegations. A look through YouTube shows a pretty unanimously good view on the Kagama 4S.

Your suppositions are incorrect. You haven't confirmed you've balanced the wheels, or tried the rears on the front just to see. Poor logic. Only happy to come to the table with problems.

The issue occured with dog bones AND the CVD's you replaced them with.

No photos, no videos, just your words. As many threads started as messages posted.

This rings alarm bells for me. I call BS.

Perhaps your rig is broken. Perhaps it has a manufacturing defect - but the way you're going about things here, none of us - besides you - are ever going to know, because: zero facts.

Mods/Woodie - be advised. 👍
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Stop being such a know it all and go troll somewhere else. I don't agree with you, live with it. Go be a hero where someone is interested in what you have to say, because I clearly indicated I am not interested in your opinion and you don't have any experience with the said vehicle.
 
Stattle said:
Below is a link to video of oscillation, hope link works.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vPGoyh8vrDrRfBvJ7
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Great - this shows that the rear drive shafts - for whatever reason - are too long.

I don't see how matters would improve when the car's arms are level - because then there's even less room for the driveshafts.

Stattle said:
Stop being such a know it all and go troll somewhere else. I don't agree with you, live with it. Go be a hero where someone is interested in what you have to say, because I clearly indicated I am not interested in your opinion and you don't have any experience with the said vehicle.
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I can't promise that, sorry. Perhaps I'll edit all my posts after the fact.

As I like it here, converse with people and attempt to engage with people without being a total asshat normally. I guess I made an exception for you. 😝🤣

Your rig needs correct rear driveshafts and that problem goes away.

Ps. You should still balance your wheels.

Love

Horatio
 
Horatio said:
Great - this shows that the rear drive shafts - for whatever reason - are too long.

I don't see how matters would improve when the car's arms are level - because then there's even less room for the driveshafts.


I can't promise that, sorry. Perhaps I'll edit all my posts after the fact.

As I like it here, converse with people and attempt to engage with people without being a total asshat normally. I guess I made an exception for you. 😝🤣

Your rig needs correct rear driveshafts and that problem goes away.

Ps. You should still balance your wheels.

Love

Horatio
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Would you mind going and helping some other people, and let people that own the vehicle at least feel like they can contribute? I feel that people might be reluctant because you ridicule and are argumentative. I want help, but not from you, thats as politely as I can put it.
 
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1000030189.webp

Whatever you've got in there right now - they ain't working.

I note the numbers in the PDF manuals are different to the ones in yours, so perhaps they've amended them?

While you're at it, you may as well check these out:

1000030190.webp


1000030191.webp
1000030192.webp

These will out last your dog bones many times over.

Pointless having CVD'S on the rear if they're over sized and jamming up.

There isn't a listed upgrade for the rear driveshafts on Corally's website, not yet anyway.

For what it's worth, the centre driveshaft lengths in the Kronos manual were wrong too. But I measured mine with calipers between the pins, measured the ball diameter and found a perfect match with Scorched Parts titanium item.

PXL_20241101_123306206.MP.webp


Whilst you exercise your right to disagree with me entirely, take solice in the fact that you can fix this issue tomorrow for £12.95. Bargain.
 
Stattle said:
Would you mind going and helping some other people, and let people that own the vehicle at least feel like they can contribute? I feel that people might be reluctant because you ridicule and are argumentative. I want help, but not from you, thats as politely as I can put it.
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Our posts crossed. My bad.

You just need to put the correct driveshafts in your car and it will be fixed.

Your response to everything positive I posted was combative and ignorant.

It's clear that you're 100% not interested in facts or the solution, just a p1$$1ng parade on TC's strawberries.
 
Horatio said:
View attachment 8015
View attachment 8016
Whatever you've got in there right now - they ain't working.

I note the numbers in the PDF manuals are different to the ones in yours, so perhaps they've amended them?

While you're at it, you may as well check these out:

View attachment 8017

View attachment 8018View attachment 8019
These will out last your dog bones many times over.

Pointless having CVD'S on the rear if they're over sized and jamming up.

There isn't a listed upgrade for the rear driveshafts on Corally's website, not yet anyway.

For what it's worth, the centre driveshaft lengths in the Kronos manual were wrong too. But I measured mine with calipers between the pins, measured the ball diameter and found a perfect match with Scorched Parts titanium item.

View attachment 8020

Whilst you exercise your right to disagree with me entirely, take solice in the fact that you can fix this issue tomorrow for £12.95. Bargain.
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You clearly can't help yourself. Again, lets agree to disagree. FYI - I put CVD's in because on stock dognones and cups the oscilation is worse. This point has been made in earlier posts. Please let others contribute and stop flooding the zone with circular arguments.
 
Stattle said:
You clearly can't help yourself. Again, lets agree to disagree. FYI - I put CVD's in because on stock dognones and cups the oscilation is worse. This point has been made in earlier posts. Please let others contribute and stop flooding the zone with circular arguments.
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You replaced dogbones that you mentioned were faulty with CVD's that are quite evidently too long - even with the arms at full droop, they're pressed right to the end of the diff output and binding. There's no room for the pins on the dog bone end.

When you place that rig on the ground, with level arms - matters will get worse - not better. The shaft will have to bend to accommodate, because the hypotenuse (at droop) is longer than the base (arms level).

It's you that won't be helped!

You can go ahead and edit all your responses after the fact, but only good sense and reason will prevail.

You'll destroy your hubs, bearings and axles. Not because of Kagama 4S geometry, but because of drive shafts that you fitted that are over-sized.

Arguably, Corally owe you a set of correct sized rear dogbones to begin with - but they haven't said no to this yet, right?

Or else - measure twice, buy once.

No one here needs to own a Kagama 4S to tell you any of this. Good luck pal - you're gonna need it with that attitude.
 
Just to point out - I'm not preventing anyone else here from helping you. This is a strawman argument that you created.

No one requires or seeks my permission to post whatever they wish.

The reason why there isn't a queue of people lining up and meeting your expectation is for 2 reasons.

You can figure both of them out yourself. 🤣
 
Stattle said:
Stop being such a know it all and go troll somewhere else. I don't agree with you, live with it. Go be a hero where someone is interested in what you have to say, because I clearly indicated I am not interested in your opinion and you don't have any experience with the said vehicle.
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Horatio is one of the few people I would actually listen to for technical advice. He's pointed out things you are clearly doing wrong, and wouldn't have figured out on your own (CVA's is the wrong "fix" for your problem -- they're too long). Some of your analysis is definitely wrong in this thread. My best guess on the information you've given is that your outdrives are notched and the dogbones are binding at certain angles do to getting stuck in the notched outdrives.

BTW, CVAs have a tendency to straighten at certain angles. Take one and just roll it on your table and you'll see what I mean. In any case, dogbones are worse.
 
razorrc said:
Horatio is one of the few people I would actually listen to for technical advice. He's pointed out things you are clearly doing wrong, and wouldn't have figured out on your own (CVA's is the wrong "fix" for your problem -- they're too long). Some of your analysis is definitely wrong in this thread. My best guess on the information you've given is that your outdrives are notched and the dogbones are binding at certain angles do to getting stuck in the notched outdrives.

BTW, CVAs have a tendency to straighten at certain angles. Take one and just roll it on your table and you'll see what I mean. In any case, dogbones are worse.
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Are drivecups notching out at less than 10 batteries normal for these rigs?

Is ths car widely considered a basher in the TC community?

Please remember the thread started as question as to whether anyone has experienced this, saying I'm wrong based on assumptions i.e. not having any hands on experience with the vehicle, becomes argumentative which is not what I'm looking for. I'm not new to this hobby, but it is the first TC car I have bought and I have found it to be not as expected with front CVD failure on the first battery and a few other issues. Putting CVDs all round is common practise for bashers to reduce the chance of loosing dogbones when bashing and encouraging the drive train to operate more smoothly. Many Kraton 6S EXB owners go down this route using Vitavon components to improve reliability and endurance and it works from my experience. I have not used the Kagama since I have put the CVD's in the rear, I'm experimenting and also looking out there to see what others might have found works. Hence joining this forum, I am not a member of any other forum because I'm finding the Kagama particularly challenging to own and maintain. I think the market penetration for this car is still limited and not many upgrade parts are available from the OEMs. Upgrade products can be a good guide to what might be a flawed design or implementation. The Kagama 4S in my opinion hasn't reached that pitch yet, but I think its likely based on my experience. I have raised the issues with the supplier, but not a lot of information has been forthcoming.
 
Yes, I have one.
Yes, of course it's a basher.

Do you think now that the notching is the source of your issue? If it is, then Horatio's suggestion is the fix, not sure why you keep evading suggestions and go off in random directions when you haven't tried what people suggest. If you're not looking for help, then why ask questions?

 
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