Kagama Kagama Steering System: High forces and Potential Upgrades (Vitavon vs. ADU)

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PinkeRostlaube

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Hello,
I am running a Max6/4990 Combo with a HRC 44kg Servo. Since Most of my runs are on gras, I have pretty high forces on the drivetrain (thats why I upgraded IT) and the Steering System.

Since I am quite Happy with the Max6 Upgrade, i still have the feeling that my Steering System (of course also caused by my Upgrades) is somehow undersized or the general load by my use is too high. The end points of the Steering System are adjusted and the system moves freely.

Nevertheless, I need a new Steering arm every 5-10 runs, the teeth of the Aluminium Servo Arm (different brands, latest was from HRC) become round and unusable. I now bought a Tekno steering arm made of steel and hope that it lasts longer.

In Addition, the housing of the driveshaft bearing of the wheel hubs became a bit loose. As a result the bearings don't hold tight in the wheel hubs and the tires can shake. I was using additional Shims to reduce that issue but I wonder If the Aluminium Wheel Hubs from Vitavon or ADU could Help.
I don't like the idea of Tuning everything (and especially making the Kagama heavier) blindly without a need. IT only leads to higher requirements for other components (and again more weight).

Has anyone experience with the Aluminium Wheel Hubs from ADU (standard Bearings) or Vitavon (bigger 18mm Bearings)?

It seems like both brands are located and produced in China and I could Not find an alternative brand. In Germany, the Vitavon part IS only 10€ more expensive (but is therefore selled locally).

My servo saver is already Set quite loose to reduce the forces at higher impacts. Is anyone having similar issues?

Best regards
Mario
 
PinkeRostlaube said:
Hello,
I am running a Max6/4990 Combo with a HRC 44kg Servo. Since Most of my runs are on gras, I have pretty high forces on the drivetrain (thats why I upgraded IT) and the Steering System.

Since I am quite Happy with the Max6 Upgrade, i still have the feeling that my Steering System (of course also caused by my Upgrades) is somehow undersized or the general load by my use is too high. The end points of the Steering System are adjusted and the system moves freely.

Nevertheless, I need a new Steering arm every 5-10 runs, the teeth of the Aluminium Servo Arm (different brands, latest was from HRC) become round and unusable. I now bought a Tekno steering arm made of steel and hope that it lasts longer.

In Addition, the housing of the driveshaft bearing of the wheel hubs became a bit loose. As a result the bearings don't hold tight in the wheel hubs and the tires can shake. I was using additional Shims to reduce that issue but I wonder If the Aluminium Wheel Hubs from Vitavon or ADU could Help.
I don't like the idea of Tuning everything (and especially making the Kagama heavier) blindly without a need. IT only leads to higher requirements for other components (and again more weight).

Has anyone experience with the Aluminium Wheel Hubs from ADU (standard Bearings) or Vitavon (bigger 18mm Bearings)?

It seems like both brands are located and produced in China and I could Not find an alternative brand. In Germany, the Vitavon part IS only 10€ more expensive (but is therefore selled locally).

My servo saver is already Set quite loose to reduce the forces at higher impacts. Is anyone having similar issues?

Best regards
Mario
Click to expand...
1000023398.webp

AGF 25t Clamping Servo Horn x 1. Fit and forget.

I don't have any experience with alloy wheel hubs on the XTR, but I run them on some of my other rigs. Bigger bearings seem like a good idea.

Your servo horns shouldn't be stripping unless something is wrong. 🤔

But if something has to strip - it would be better that it's your servo horns rather than your servo output shaft. So in that regard, it's probably wiser to stick with alloy.

Why this would happen with a functioning servo saver is beyond me.

The load by your use (on grass) is fairly normal for people in the UK and if anything, the limiting factor are the pathetic servo saver springs, which are so weak as to only allowing a fraction of torque from the servo to the steering system.

LC 085J 0 M

From LeeSpring, fits. It's got a higher rate and is wound from music wire.

Much firmer steering, but still has given in the event of a prang. 👍
 
I run agfrc servo get them off AliExpress some of their servos not all you can select without a servo horn save a few $$$ then I select their upgraded servo horn, it’s quality piece, but even 1 supplied is quality, upgraded just a little nicer & if anything does strip you can get replacement parts instead of replacing servo. The splines on your servo my be worn causing your horn to slip & strip teeth had that issue before.

image.webp


image.webp


image.webp
 
Thank you for the Tips. I am going to try the Steering horns. The teeth of the current HRC Servo still seem to be good and fornthe wirst Case, there are also repair Kits available for about 20€.
Do younhave any experience regarding the Vitavon vs. ADU Aluminium parts?
 
PinkeRostlaube said:
Thank you for the Tips. I am going to try the Steering horns. The teeth of the current HRC Servo still seem to be good and fornthe wirst Case, there are also repair Kits available for about 20€.
Do younhave any experience regarding the Vitavon vs. ADU Aluminium parts?
Click to expand...
No but plan on adding the vitavon diff cases & hubs to my build in future.
 
I have been toying with getting ADU parts as seem quite reasonable prices. But I had some other bits that I need ed take priority so they are on the back burner.
 
ian986 said:
I have been toying with getting ADU parts as seem quite reasonable prices. But I had some other bits that I need ed take priority so they are on the back burner.
Click to expand...
Same boat , stung with speeding fine & dental bills so no more shiny bits for me this month 😅 vitavon stuff looks nice though see it fitted here.

 
Nelson.81 said:
I run agfrc servo get them off AliExpress some of their servos not all you can select without a servo horn save a few $$$ then I select their upgraded servo horn, it’s quality piece, but even 1 supplied is quality, upgraded just a little nicer & if anything does strip you can get replacement parts instead of replacing servo. The splines on your servo my be worn causing your horn to slip & strip teeth had that issue before.

View attachment 6737

View attachment 6738

View attachment 6739
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According to the pictures, you have two different servos (A73.. and A81...) and the Service Kit for A73.
Which one of the two servos can you recommend? Arent 3xkg from the A73 too weak?
 
A73 32kg in my buggy A81 45kg for my Kronos or you could go 55kg if want to splash out little overkill think 45kg enough I think.
 
Those Vitavon parts for Kagama should also fit Kronos - I'm thinking transmission cases and hubs. 🤩😎

Edit: The oversized bearings in the hubs is a nice idea for longevity. Nice for those of us that use heavy, belted tyres. Negatives would be increased weight and unsprung weight. Not really an issue for bashing, but would impact 0-60 times and handling.
 
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Horatio said:
Those Vitavon parts for Kagama should also fit Kronos - I'm thinking transmission cases and hubs. 🤩😎

Edit: The oversized bearings in the hubs is a nice idea for longevity. Nice for those of us that use heavy, belted tyres. Negatives would be increased weight and unsprung weight. Not really an issue for bashing, but would impact 0-60 times and handling.
Click to expand...
You they do look nice, available in anodised black , red & green also.
 
Hi,
I just received the silver Vitavon wheel hubs. They seem ton be well manufactured and the weight difference for a single front wheel hub is only 30grams (this includes the weight of the different bearings as well).
I think I will at least keep the ones for the front. Unfortunatellly, only the silver ones have been available at European stores and I am still unsure whether I should pay about 20€ more for the black ones from Vitavon directly. This would suit better to the black and red Kagama chassis but the black is probably way more sensitive for scratches (which occure a lot).
Best regards

Mario
 
PinkeRostlaube said:
Hi,
I just received the silver Vitavon wheel hubs. They seem ton be well manufactured and the weight difference for a single front wheel hub is only 30grams (this includes the weight of the different bearings as well).
I think I will at least keep the ones for the front. Unfortunatellly, only the silver ones have been available at European stores and I am still unsure whether I should pay about 20€ more for the black ones from Vitavon directly. This would suit better to the black and red Kagama chassis but the black is probably way more sensitive for scratches (which occure a lot).
Best regards

Mario
Click to expand...
I think I prefer the silver ones. 🤩💪😎
 
I just installed the First Front wheel hub. Unfortunatellly, the Vitavon Wheel Hubs has a reduced max. steering angle since the housing of the ball joints is 1mm smaller. I am quite dissappointed about the reduced steering angle. Of course I could sand the housings wider but I am not willing to do that in such a "high end/expensive tuning part.

Edit: I also measured an unworn original wheel hub. It the same difference, I could not measure any wear. I am now going to contact Vitavon to ask whether this is a concrete design decision or not.

PXL_20240829_082214851.jpg


PXL_20240829_081948253.jpg


PXL_20240829_081923637.jpg
 
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Hmmm that’s a little disappointing maybe have to reconsider them. You hope to reduce steering slop & increase durability but shouldn’t come as a trade off by loosing steering angle. It’s not much most probably wouldn’t even have noticed it, but I get being disappointed given the price of them would hope for better given their reputation.
 
I think it is already more stable by using 7075 and there is no need to additionally change the dimension and reduce the steering angle. I was just contacting Vitavon and I am now waiting for a reply.
 
PinkeRostlaube said:
I think it is already more stable by using 7075 and there is no need to additionally change the dimension and reduce the steering angle. I was just contacting Vitavon and I am now waiting for a reply.
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They’ve been in production for a while can’t see them changing the design tbh but you never know 🤞

Just a though but It maybe to prevent the risk of them pulling out. 🤷
 
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PinkeRostlaube said:
I just installed the First Front wheel hub. Unfortunatellly, the Vitavon Wheel Hubs has a reduced max. steering angle since the housing of the ball joints is 1mm smaller. I am quite dissappointed about the reduced steering angle. Of course I could sand the housings wider but I am not willing to do that in such a "high end/expensive tuning part.

Edit: I also measured an unworn original wheel hub. It the same difference, I could not measure any wear. I am now going to contact Vitavon to ask whether this is a concrete design decision or not.

View attachment 6755

View attachment 6756

View attachment 6757
Click to expand...
Can they be relieved by 0.5mm each side with a Dremel? 🤔

PinkeRostlaube said:
I just installed the First Front wheel hub. Unfortunatellly, the Vitavon Wheel Hubs has a reduced max. steering angle since the housing of the ball joints is 1mm smaller. I am quite dissappointed about the reduced steering angle. Of course I could sand the housings wider but I am not willing to do that in such a "high end/expensive tuning part.

Edit: I also measured an unworn original wheel hub. It the same difference, I could not measure any wear. I am now going to contact Vitavon to ask whether this is a concrete design decision or not.

View attachment 6755

View attachment 6756

View attachment 6757
Click to expand...
Good heads-up. They look like nice parts, but I wouldn't really want to lose steering lock. I'd definitely look at ways of fettling the edges to gain back the steering angles of original composite parts. 👍
 
Nelson.81 said:
Hmmm that’s a little disappointing maybe have to reconsider them. You hope to reduce steering slop & increase durability but shouldn’t come as a trade off by loosing steering angle. It’s not much most probably wouldn’t even have noticed it, but I get being disappointed given the price of them would hope for better given their reputation.
Click to expand...
I am sure I could relieve them for 0.5mm on each side. It is more a question of the principle. So far I think that is a major design issue and I don't want to support a company that produces (expensive) parts that need to be further optimized by the customers. The alternative would be ADU but before complainig too much I will wait for an answer from Vitavon and ther German seller.

Best regards
Mario
 
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