Shogun Combo surpass rocket

[Opua]

Hi, I've unfortunately burned out my Shogun's Torox 185 ESC, so I'm looking for a new combo. I'd like to get a Surpass Rocket ESC and motor, specifically a 1600kV motor and a 160A ESC. Since the kV is low, I'd use a 21- or 23-tooth pinion gear for good speed, acceleration, and torque. What do you think? Does anyone have this combo?

 

[Sandracer_NL]

That’s the updated esc and motor from Rocket; their Supersonic line. I have a Supersonic 4292 in my Muraco and value for money it’s great.
As for the esc, that’s supposed to be be better as well, which isn’t that difficult as their previous one (150A) was known for catching fire.
A 160A esc with xt60 pre-installed makes me frown a bit. If the wires have good gauge size you can install ‘better’ connectors, but I’d probably still go for another esc.

 

[Nelson.81]

I’d pick Hobbywing quicrun 150a over surpass esc. The surpass 4292 1780kv motor is more popular choice I run one.

I just found this on AliExpress: ￡143.60 | HOBBYWING QuicRun WP 8BL150 G2 Brushless ESC 3-6S 150A with LCD LED Program Card for 1/8 Scale RC Model Car Buggy Accessories
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ExbLDoe

 

[SirCrashALot]

I think this was asked and answered extensively on the Arrma forum.
You do know most CF members are also AF members, right?

 

[Trucking in space]

I'd recommend against the Surpass ESC. Put out a bit more cash for the Hobbywing. You don't want a mushy throttle with delay. Surpass motors might be okay but please don't waste your time with the ESC. Those ESCs are laggy enough in a 14th scale. Save a little more money and buy the Hobbywing. If you asked this on the Arrma forums as well, you probably got the same answer. Stick with Hobbywing ESC. Save yourself having to buy a new ESC again in a year. I can't personally speak for Surpass motors, but I always save up more cash and buy Hobbywing everything. Team Corally RCs are heavy, and you'll be taxing that Surpass "stuff"() harder than most users. I doubt it'll handle that kind of abuse. When I started the hobby I often cheaped out and ended up buying things twice because the low-ball cheapo item was a crappie fisherman (Ren and Stimpy anyone?).
Okay I double checked. You have a Shogun. You want a heavy duty ESC and motor. If your Torox burned out then I guarantee you'll burn up that POS Surpass in 3 months. Never mind the throttle delay.
Don't cheap out. Corally RCs run their ESC and motor hard. Stay away from Surpass.

 

[Trucking in space]

PS: your 21-23 tooth pinion idea is far fetched. I run a 1717 size 1650 Castle motor with a 200 amp ESC and I still only run a 14 tooth pinion.
Just because the Kv is low doesn't mean that the motor and ESC won't get hot.
Using a low kv motor and a higher toothed pinion will simply increase the amp draw as opposed to higher voltage that a higher Kv motor pulls. Larger pinion = more amp draw.
TLDR: your low kv motor and higher tooth pinion will run hot anyways, because more amps means more heat.
That 160 amp ESC would COOK with those pinions, and likely cut out due to high current protection. You might get away with a 17 tooth pinion.
If your Kv is lower, but your motor can size is not larger, you're going to be heating it up just as much as a similarly sized, higher Kv motor if you use a larger pinion.
Don't make the mistake I did, and think you can jump up a bunch of pinion teeth simply because your Kv is lower by 650 kv or so. That's not how it works unless you're doing speed runs: one speed pass, cool down period, second pass, cool down, etc...
You're assuming WAY too much temperature and amp draw headroom from a Castle system, let alone a d@mn Surpass Hobby system.
What size pinion do you run RN anyway? And how long did your Torox ESC last ?

 

[Atomic Skull]

XC-ESC gets good reviews on Youtube.

https://www.xc-esc.com/product/e8-rc-car-brushless-esc/

I had the 200A version on my Asuga before I went over to a full Castle system and it was good. I will reuse it on something else in the future. It ran much cooler than the HW Max8 it replaced likely due to the bigger fan and heatsink. These are also sold branded as Mad Max ESCs.

Speaking of Castle, Perfect Pass gives you a free 5 pack of their QS8 sets (5 male 5 female) with the purchase of most Castle motors and ESCs which is basically like getting a $30 discount. The PP version are better quality than many noname QS8s because they are guaranteed genuine connectors from the original manufacturer.

 

[Partydaz]

I’d pick Hobbywing quicrun 150a over surpass esc. The surpass 4292 1780kv motor is more popular choice I run one.

I just found this on AliExpress: ￡143.60 | HOBBYWING QuicRun WP 8BL150 G2 Brushless ESC 3-6S 150A with LCD LED Program Card for 1/8 Scale RC Model Car Buggy Accessories
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ExbLDoe

I second that for a cheap replacement, from what I make of it its an old max 8 non sensored they renamed and gave it better caps . Got one in my Kagama its been working great since September last year when I put it in. Only time it overheated was saturday but UK was having a heatwave then so cannot blame it I even had to take the dusty motors cover off to help cool it which is a first!. I only run stock 13t and below.

 

[KnowAir]

Bang for the buck, HW all day. Ultimate power handling, Castle.
My Torox 185 kept thermally shutting down on me when I had it over geared, they run an aggressive program profile in these from TC. It’s essentially a Max 8 G1, so if you’re looking for more performance than that’s capable of, Castle or Max 6 is my recommendation.

 

[Nelson.81]

XC-ESC gets good reviews on Youtube.

https://www.xc-esc.com/product/e8-rc-car-brushless-esc/

I had the 200A version on my Asuga before I went over to a full Castle system and it was good. I will reuse it on something else in the future. It ran much cooler than the HW Max8 it replaced likely due to the bigger fan and heatsink. These are also sold branded as Mad Max ESCs.

Speaking of Castle, Perfect Pass gives you a free 5 pack of their QS8 sets (5 male 5 female) with the purchase of most Castle motors and ESCs which is basically like getting a $30 discount. The PP version are better quality than many noname QS8s because they are guaranteed genuine connectors from the original manufacturer.

Been looking at the mad components madmax (xc esc) myself lately shipping expensive ordering direct from them, can get both esc on AliExpress works out cheaper.

 

[SirCrashALot]

PS: your 21-23 tooth pinion idea is far fetched. I run a 1717 size 1650 Castle motor with a 200 amp ESC and I still only run a 14 tooth pinion.
Just because the Kv is low doesn't mean that the motor and ESC won't get hot.
Using a low kv motor and a higher toothed pinion will simply increase the amp draw as opposed to higher voltage that a higher Kv motor pulls. Larger pinion = more amp draw.
TLDR: your low kv motor and higher tooth pinion will run hot anyways, because more amps means more heat.
That 160 amp ESC would COOK with those pinions, and likely cut out due to high current protection. You might get away with a 17 tooth pinion.
If your Kv is lower, but your motor can size is not larger, you're going to be heating it up just as much as a similarly sized, higher Kv motor if you use a larger pinion.
Don't make the mistake I did, and think you can jump up a bunch of pinion teeth simply because your Kv is lower by 650 kv or so. That's not how it works unless you're doing speed runs: one speed pass, cool down period, second pass, cool down, etc...
You're assuming WAY too much temperature and amp draw headroom from a Castle system, let alone a d@mn Surpass Hobby system.
What size pinion do you run RN anyway? And how long did your Torox ESC last ?

People seem to think that they can compensate low kv values with bigger pinions. That only works to a certain degree.
If you mount a similar size lower kv motor, the torque and power output remains virtually the same at the same voltage, only the rpm value changed. It's not like the lower kv motor magically has the power to go big pinions on it. Going up 1 or 2 teeth on the pinion may be ok, more will likely be too much. The motor kv should be chosen to get the car to the required speed at a chosen voltage and moderate gearing.
If you want more speed, you need more power. That means a bigger motor, which probably has lower kv, but more power to drive bigger pinions.
Also, i don't understand why people would go from 6s to 4s and then use bigger pinions to 'get it back up to speed'.
Then they're using less power to run a more demanding gearing.
That's counter intuitive.
You have more power and torque on 6s! That's where you can use bigger pinions.
If you are trying to reach the same speed on 4s, you will be drawing excessive Amps.

@Opua. That 4282 motor would probably run best with 15 - 17t pinions. 21 -23t is excessive. A 1717 motor would probably run this car best with 18 - 20t.
So @Trucking in space: you can go up at least 4t without any noticeable loss in acceleration, with that 1717. You are under geared at 14t.

@Trucking in space
I missed your last questions.
My Muraco has the stock motor and a MMX6S in it, running a 13t and oversized wheels (Copperhead 2). I can not run a bigger pinion. The system will overheat.
I do however run Max6 systems and 4985 1650kv motors in my Asugas. I tried 23/46t gearing and they ran fine and cool on 6s. On 4s however, the batteries were struggling, so i ended up with 21t pinions.
Bear in mind that your 1717 motor on 6s is putting out roughly twice the power of a stock 4074 motor on 6s. That means you gear way up with that setup.

 

[Opua]

First of all thank you to all for the reply, now I'm undecided if to take an old hobbywing max 8 or max 6, regarding the motor I don't know, I have confused ideas. I would like the same powerful or more like torox 185. If I remember well the maximum pinion we can fit on the Corally models including the Shogun is 17T, right? So if I mounted an max 6 esc I couldn't fit a 20T for example....

 

[Sandracer_NL]

Max6 v3 and 4292 Rocket motor.
No need for a 20T unless you are speedrunning. In that case replace the 52T spur gear for the 46T spur gear, which allows you a pinion of more than 20T.

 

[Opua]

I second that for a cheap replacement, from what I make of it its an old max 8 non sensored they renamed and gave it better caps . Got one in my Kagama its been working great since September last year when I put it in. Only time it overheated was saturday but UK was having a heatwave then so cannot blame it I even had to take the dusty motors cover off to help cool it which is a first!. I only run stock 13t and below.

Very interesting, I don't remember exactly now, but the old Max 8, which was supposed to be the G1, didn't have sensors. Does the Max 8 G2 have them? So it would essentially be the same esc? A friend of mine has the old Max 8 combo mounted on his Taglion and it works great!

 

[Partydaz]

The new Max 8 ESCs have a sensor cable but can still run non sensor motors and they are improvement on the old max 8 better BEC and current ratings I believe.

 

[Opua]

I’d pick Hobbywing quicrun 150a over surpass esc. The surpass 4292 1780kv motor is more popular choice I run one.

I just found this on AliExpress: ￡143.60 | HOBBYWING QuicRun WP 8BL150 G2 Brushless ESC 3-6S 150A with LCD LED Program Card for 1/8 Scale RC Model Car Buggy Accessories
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ExbLDoe

Hi, you've convinced me! With this QuicRun WP 8BL 150 G2 + Surpass 4292 1780kV combination, would I notice a difference compared to the stock Team Corally combination, or not? I mean, are the two combinations equivalent in terms of performance and power, or is one of the two more powerful? Also, does this ESC have delays or is it perfectly synchronized?

 

[Horatio]

I have had good experience with the Rocket 4292 motor - 1780kv - it's a 4000 watt motor and can be geared up to high 60's using the stock Corally ESC.

I have zero experience with the Surpass ESC. The Corally system is essentially the HW Max 8 with tweaked firmware specifically for TC.

As I have previously stated elsewhere on this board, the 4292 1780kv motor is physically bigger and produces more torque than the Kuron 825 motor. It runs cooler and for a £50 motor is a lot of bang for your buck.

Coupled with the Torox ESC, it certainly has good top speed when geared up. At moderate ratios, it has great usability.with good midrange torque.

The higher KV Kuron on the other hand is a 'hotter' motor in every sense of the word. It accelerates harder and has more initial punch. It also has better 0-60mph capability on 6S.

However, the 2050kv 825 is rated at 3000 watts and whilst more rapid, doesn't pull the higher ratios that the physically bigger, torque-ier 1780kv motor can.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the 4292 is heavier and takes up more room on the chassis, altering the weight distribution.

So there are multiple factors to consider when choosing motors and ESC's.

 

[Trucking in space]

Hey I just remembered I have two 150 amp Spektrum ESCs laying around. Only been used for maybe 20 packs. Do you live in the USA or elsewhere? I'd sell you one for $50 + shipping if you live in North America.

 

[Partydaz]

You could always buy another torox 185 I've seen them on eBay from RC breakers if your happy with your old set up be easier for plug and play unless you wanna mess about it is part of the hobby . Reading these posts makes me wanna try this bigger motor as well see if I like it but I only put the stock 6s motor in last week ...I will tame this beast! Think the motor fan has it's work cut out in this UK weather at the moment running this motor.

 

[gouldy]

I've been using the 2050kv rocket and tbat same 160a etc in my asuga since May 2924
Its been rock solid, no difference than my max 8 esc, banggood have them atm 43 quid and the motor 33 quid, you won't get anything better for anywhere near that price

4282 2150kv 36 quid
160a escape 43 quid